I'm back, and I have a question for the VAG oppos.

"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei) 10/14/2014 at 13:57 • Filed to: None

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So the S4 I bought has a 2.7L APB engine (Cutaway pictured). It currently is suffering from multiple random misfires under load (OBD code P0300, no other codes to tie to a specific cylinder). I have to get it (somehow) to pass emissions in order to get the state to do their paperwork (even though I'm not putting a plate on the car).

From what I'm seeing, here's the scenario where it occurs.

1) Engine under existing load (cruise)
2) Large throttle open request (floor it)
3) Computer is calling for spark and richer mixture, and it stumbles.
4) ECU throws P0300.

As of right now, I don't have a VAGCOM (It's on order). My initial thoughts were to the fact that the symptom doesn't show under cruise or light load, so probably plugs. However, my research is showing there are other ignition components which are said to be problematic, mainly the coil packs and the Ignition Control Modules.

So I have two paths. One is buy original fit parts (6 coil packs, 6 spark plugs), and replace/inspect the existing plugs.

The other path is this: Coil conversion to the VW 2.0T FSI coils. This removes the Ignition Control Modules from the picture (At $125/piece, one per cylinder bank, that's not insignificant), and means I can use the cheaper 2.0T coils (as opposed to the 1.8T/2.7T coils and ICMs). Supposedly that's better, especially since the car has an ECU flash (APR Stage II).

Could Oppo share any thoughts/experience with this, since I don't see a reason why not to convert (assuming appropriate spacers are included, as with !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! )

For Sweden > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:01

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I dunno.

Have you tried VW Vortex?

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > For Sweden 10/14/2014 at 14:02

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I'm not a masochist... I prefer intelligent conversation :)

treesmakewater > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:04

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check your plugs before anything else, it could be coils also, or even injectors getting clogged or stuck.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > treesmakewater 10/14/2014 at 14:06

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That was my first thought. Seeing the condition of the existing plugs would probably make a lot of sense in deciding what to do.

Also, because it's a VW, VAGCOM...

treesmakewater > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:09

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i haven't needed vagcom to diagnose my problems YET. How much are the coils for the 2.7? The coils for my 4.2 (made by meyle) are about $30 each.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > treesmakewater 10/14/2014 at 14:18

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RockAuto has Delphi brand coils for $33.79. No name coils are $28.79.

For the 2.0T, No name at RockAuto is $12.08. Beck/Arnley (expensive) coils are $27.79 (Which is still cheaper than the cheapest 3 terminal 2.7 coils)

Spaceball-Two > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:18

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Start with coils and plugs. My 1.8t eats coils like Skittles. Most Audi engines do.

ColoradoTaco > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:21

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Not a masochist? You may have bought the wrong car haha. Audizine.com has a huge base of B5 s4 owners. You're on the right track. Chipped S4s generally do better with a narrower gap than stock, .028 compared to .032, so check that when you pull/replace your plugs. That 034 kit you posted is very popular so the conversion is def worth it. Although I haven't done it to mine personally. A bad coil pack should give you a misfire code for a specific cylinder so the ICM could be your issue. Hell, you could have a big vacuum leak as well so double check all the little hoses that are likely hard a brittle by now if they're original.

Prepare for a deep rabbit hole with this car. I love mine but any chance of recouping any money from it went bye-bye a long time ago. I have more money in maintenance/repairs and mods than what I paid for it by a comfortable margin. Post some pics of yours

ComeOnMann > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:22

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I've heard both positive and neutral responses to this mod. If you have performance upgrades you might as well get the 2.0T coils. I've also heard you can get away without using the spacers, at least on the 1.8T.

Chris Clarke > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:22

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Don't replace the coils yet. Wait for the vagcom, or borrow one. I have one if you come visit me. This is pretty common. New plugs first. NGK BRr7e gapped properly. Might be a bad MAF. I can send you ICM's if you just want to test them. Also quattroworld.com forums is a great resource and I lurk there occasionally.

treesmakewater > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:23

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if the conversion works properly and is not that much work, I'd be willing to give it a try. Will the 2.0 coils work as well at high rpm?

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ColoradoTaco 10/14/2014 at 14:28

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I bought it for The Cheap (<$3000) from my brother (who doesn't have enough money to maintain it), and it is intended to be a track rat. (Because some tracks and groups aren't convertible friendly)

It has an APR Stage II tune already, but it's running replaced K03s. The two stages of K03s on an APB engine are "Failing" and "Failed", so when they go again, they will likely get K04s.

I do need to get coilover wrenches, because the ride is currently a tad too low for any reasonable (even track) use, because double wishbone suspension, brah. Raising it should allow things to line up and correct some of the excessive current settings. That's an easy fix.

EDIT: It's so low it high centers on speed bumps in the parking deck.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Spaceball-Two 10/14/2014 at 14:29

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The 2.7 and the 1.8 use very close to the same coil.

Spaceball-Two > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:33

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Yup. Keep a couple spares in your trunk.

ColoradoTaco > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:38

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Nice price. I'm familiar with the failing k03s so for my money I'd jump straight past k04s to either Tial 605s or 770s or frankenturbo F21s if I have to replace turbos again. I went k03s as mine is a tip(:/) and the extra power from the k04s would be next useless with a blown trans. I settled on the tip as I wanted the avant and mine is mainly used to get to the ski resort and to work. I-70 ski traffic in a manual is the worst. Mine sits about 25" from ground to fender and it looks great but is still functional enough to not have to raise and lower it for each season, still gotta be wary of speed bumps and hard dips though.

pic of mine:

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Chris Clarke 10/14/2014 at 14:42

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I still want to pull the plugs, because I'd be willing to bet my brother never changed them, and that would let me know if any changes need to be made there.

So I'm thinking start with plugs and see if it continues. I do need it sorted out by the end of the month for Daytona.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ColoradoTaco 10/14/2014 at 14:48

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I went with a sedan and 6 speed. So it could handle the K04s. Note that those are the stock 17 inch wheels, and it rides that low. I haven't measured the exact ride height, but it did take out some gravel when going into RamblinRover's driveway. But I do know I want it raised. Full stop. Also, I suspect this is when my brother *bought* the car, as it's missing some of the new body foibles since he owned it.

The interior needs a lot of help, but since it's a track car, it will likely get some seat swaps etc. Also falling headliner.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > treesmakewater 10/14/2014 at 14:53

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I'd think so. The 2.0T FSI and the 2.7 Biturbo both redline at about 6800-7000.

ColoradoTaco > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 14:56

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Ya, that is pretty dang low, tucking tire on the 17s probably puts you in the 23" g-t-f range. here's mine for comparison on the stockers which I have winter tires mounted on. Still too low for some tastes but it works for me.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ColoradoTaco 10/14/2014 at 15:08

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I would need to have enough suspension travel that the suspension is doing its job, as opposed to me riding around corners on bump stops. :)

So Coilover Wrenches it is!

ColoradoTaco > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 15:10

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Do you know what coils you have? I've seen that sometimes they don't work interchangeably between brands

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ColoradoTaco 10/14/2014 at 15:15

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H&Rs. ECS has a set for $30.

RallyWrench > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 15:38

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The ignition output stages (control units) are failure prone, and will cause random or phantom misfires in multiple cylinders. If you order them, do not buy the Huco brand, they're junk.

The 2.0T upgrade is great for getting rid of the ICMs, but the 2.0T coils are also junk, just as the 1.8 ones are, so you'll still go through them eventually. I've found the OEM bolt down coils are more reliable in the long term.

You may have an individual coil going down, but hard to know without a cylinder indicated or VCDS to watch the counters in blocks 15 & 16. It is characteristic for them to drop out under a big load demand, ie flooring it from low revs.

Also, check the spark plug gaps. We're a Revo dealer, and I've found on flashed cars that the stock gap is too large, and they blow out the spark under high boost. Every car is a little different, but running one range cooler plugs is sometimes necessary as well. I doubt this is the case here, because it's happening at cruise, but worth checking anyway.

I used to work for 034 btw :)

RallyWrench > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 15:41

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"The two stages of K03s on an APB engine are "Failing" and "Failed"

This is true, and also applies to 1.8ts. You are wise to recognize this, Sensei.

ColoradoTaco > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 15:45

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nice man, good luck. Hopefully we see some track day vids here sooner rather than later

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > RallyWrench 10/14/2014 at 15:48

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If it's going to eat coils, I'd rather have it eat cheap coils than expensive coils. :) Just my thought there.

I'm getting a VCDS unit so I can watch those blocks and try to pin it down further, but because of the idiot government, I have to do something to get the readiness back to normal according to an OBD reader (Yes, VCDS does other things with readiness, but the government's emission test doesn't check those) and get the government paperwork done.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > RallyWrench 10/14/2014 at 15:53

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I had a 1.8T Beetle at one point in my life. I'm wary of silly little foibles in Volkswagen products.

RallyWrench > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/14/2014 at 15:55

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That is an advantage for sure, just so you know that they'll still fail. Some buy the kit thinking they're failproof.

Where are you? I live in CA, land of milk and honey the world's hardest emissions laws, and you're allowed to have 1 monitor not set & still pass smog. Pre-2000 cars can drop 2. Might help you if your area is similar.

Some flashes disable or ignore the rear 02 sensors, which can make getting the monitors set a bitch. Might check if that's the case with your APR version. You can cherry pick & run individual monitors in VCDS Basic Settings, too.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > RallyWrench 10/14/2014 at 16:17

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I just went and checked for Georgia. For cars up to and including MY2000, you are allowed up to three not ready monitors and it will register as a Pass. For MY2001 and on, it's up to two not ready monitors.

The only one that the scan tool is reporting not ready is the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor heater does report working.

Hi there > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 10/15/2014 at 10:26

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In any car, when weird shit like this happens it's good idea to replace plugs with proper new examples. It's cheap and easy and fixes a lot of crap like this.